Discussion:
Can a Single NetBackup Client talk to Multiple Master?Media?
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srabbi
2008-03-19 16:30:39 UTC
Permalink
Hi All,

I am designing a centralized backup/restore solution for 100+ branches. We are currently using NetBackup to do the data backup at a local tape
library attached to each branch server. Our business folks do not want to
mount/unmount tapes for weekly and incremental backup. So my task is
to find an innovative way to solve this tape handling problem. We also have a very strict SLA for data restore ( 4 hrs) with business.

I am wondering if I can keep the local tape library in a lock down state and use it for weekly full backup (i.e overwriting tapes) and do the incremental back at the central site. This means that each NetBackup client needs to talk to a Master and Media Server for the Full backup and then talk to another Master/Media Server for incremental backup over the WAN. Can a NetBackup client configured to talk ot multiple Master server? IF so, what is the way to configure it?

My Branch servers are all Win2003 Servers and have medium speed WAN link. Any insight to the proposed solution would be much appreciated. I exhuasted seraching NetBackup documentation and I could not find an answer (yes/No) to my question. I hope Fourm members can anser to my question based on their experience. Thanks

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M***@cexp.com
2008-03-19 22:18:03 UTC
Permalink
Sure - easy for a client to talk to multiple media servers.

Just make sure bp.conf has a SERVER= entry for each media server (and
port on the media server) that might be used to contact it and you'll be
fine.

You can build this in one policy, use a policy storage unit (on your
primary media server) for your primary backup, then use
schedule-specific storage units for backups to other storage units
located on other media servers.

-M

-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of srabbi
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:31 AM
To: VERITAS-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: [Veritas-bu] Can a Single NetBackup Client talk to
MultipleMaster?Media?


Hi All,

I am designing a centralized backup/restore solution for 100+ branches.
We are currently using NetBackup to do the data backup at a local tape
library attached to each branch server. Our business folks do not want
to
mount/unmount tapes for weekly and incremental backup. So my task is
to find an innovative way to solve this tape handling problem. We also
have a very strict SLA for data restore ( 4 hrs) with business.

I am wondering if I can keep the local tape library in a lock down state
and use it for weekly full backup (i.e overwriting tapes) and do the
incremental back at the central site. This means that each NetBackup
client needs to talk to a Master and Media Server for the Full backup
and then talk to another Master/Media Server for incremental backup over
the WAN. Can a NetBackup client configured to talk ot multiple Master
server? IF so, what is the way to configure it?

My Branch servers are all Win2003 Servers and have medium speed WAN
link. Any insight to the proposed solution would be much appreciated. I
exhuasted seraching NetBackup documentation and I could not find an
answer (yes/No) to my question. I hope Fourm members can anser to my
question based on their experience. Thanks

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Martin, Jonathan
2008-03-19 22:38:49 UTC
Permalink
Yes, you can configure multiple masters as "media servers" and the
client will respond to both masters. The correct way to do this (IMO)
is to make each branch site a Media server, with the master in the data
center. You can do it your way but the first incremental backup will
still be a full since there is no "last" backup to run against.

Single Master - Branch Media Servers
PROS: You can run one policy and write both locally to the branch and
centrally to the master
CONS: If the wan link goes down no backups will fire (until the link
comes back up)

Multiple Masters
PROS: If the wan link goes down backups will still happen
CONS: The client will have no clue what is being backed up to where, so
things backed up locally in the full will still get backed up by the
incremental.

Have you considered data de-duplication? For the price of a library in
most cases you can put 500GB in de-duplicated storage onsite in an
appliance. I'm not sure what your budget looks like but with a SAN
Media server on the branch server you could write the data locally to
the deduplication device and then replicate only the changes back across
the wan to the data center. You get the benefits of a local backup
(speed) and the safety of having a copy offsite (DR.)

Your SLA - is that time to restore an entire down server or just a user
request for files? If you want to put the entire server back in les
than 4 hours your are going to require backups onsite (replicated
offsite) and something like Bare-Metal Restore (comes standard with
Enterprise licenses, I think.)

I love the challenge of architecting a solution.

Good luck!

-Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of srabbi
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:31 PM
To: VERITAS-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: [Veritas-bu] Can a Single NetBackup Client talk to
MultipleMaster?Media?


Hi All,

I am designing a centralized backup/restore solution for 100+ branches.
We are currently using NetBackup to do the data backup at a local tape
library attached to each branch server. Our business folks do not want
to mount/unmount tapes for weekly and incremental backup. So my task is
to find an innovative way to solve this tape handling problem. We also
have a very strict SLA for data restore ( 4 hrs) with business.

I am wondering if I can keep the local tape library in a lock down state
and use it for weekly full backup (i.e overwriting tapes) and do the
incremental back at the central site. This means that each NetBackup
client needs to talk to a Master and Media Server for the Full backup
and then talk to another Master/Media Server for incremental backup over
the WAN. Can a NetBackup client configured to talk ot multiple Master
server? IF so, what is the way to configure it?

My Branch servers are all Win2003 Servers and have medium speed WAN
link. Any insight to the proposed solution would be much appreciated. I
exhuasted seraching NetBackup documentation and I could not find an
answer (yes/No) to my question. I hope Fourm members can anser to my
question based on their experience. Thanks

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Bobby Williams
2008-03-20 10:01:51 UTC
Permalink
If the client machines are Windows systems, then you could use multiple
masters. If the client systems are anything else, you will have to go with
a Enterprise wide master and media servers at the branches.

Windows incremental backups in NB are based on the archive bit (unless
someone has done something not very wise).

The other OS systems use the time stamp of the policy to determine what to
include in the incremental. The policy info is stored on the master server
in the image database.

One big word of caution: make sure that you can do multiple full backups
without have to use the same tape over. You don't want to use the tapes for
your current full backup to do you next full backup. If an error occurred,
you would have no full backup at all.

If you are using multiple masters, they just need to be in the bp.conf /
registry.

Same for media servers. They just need to be in the bp.conf / registry




Bobby Williams
2205 Peterson Drive
Chattanooga, Tennessee 37421
423-296-8200

-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of srabbi
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:31 PM
To: VERITAS-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: [Veritas-bu] Can a Single NetBackup Client talk to
MultipleMaster?Media?


Hi All,

I am designing a centralized backup/restore solution for 100+ branches. We
are currently using NetBackup to do the data backup at a local tape library
attached to each branch server. Our business folks do not want to
mount/unmount tapes for weekly and incremental backup. So my task is to find
an innovative way to solve this tape handling problem. We also have a very
strict SLA for data restore ( 4 hrs) with business.

I am wondering if I can keep the local tape library in a lock down state and
use it for weekly full backup (i.e overwriting tapes) and do the incremental
back at the central site. This means that each NetBackup client needs to
talk to a Master and Media Server for the Full backup and then talk to
another Master/Media Server for incremental backup over the WAN. Can a
NetBackup client configured to talk ot multiple Master server? IF so, what
is the way to configure it?

My Branch servers are all Win2003 Servers and have medium speed WAN link.
Any insight to the proposed solution would be much appreciated. I exhuasted
seraching NetBackup documentation and I could not find an answer (yes/No) to
my question. I hope Fourm members can anser to my question based on their
experience. Thanks

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Martin, Jonathan
2008-03-20 13:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Just FYI / Netbackup can backup on Windows via Archive bit or Timestamp.
Timestamp isn't a HUGE issue in this case, the only issue being that the
incremental will backup everything changed since the last incremental
(including anything changed but backed up by the full.) Its not like
timestamps make this solution not work entirely.

-Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Bobby
Williams
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:02 AM
To: VERITAS-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Can a Single NetBackup Client talk
toMultipleMaster?Media?

If the client machines are Windows systems, then you could use multiple
masters. If the client systems are anything else, you will have to go
with a Enterprise wide master and media servers at the branches.

Windows incremental backups in NB are based on the archive bit (unless
someone has done something not very wise).

The other OS systems use the time stamp of the policy to determine what
to include in the incremental. The policy info is stored on the master
server in the image database.

One big word of caution: make sure that you can do multiple full
backups without have to use the same tape over. You don't want to use
the tapes for your current full backup to do you next full backup. If
an error occurred, you would have no full backup at all.

If you are using multiple masters, they just need to be in the bp.conf /
registry.

Same for media servers. They just need to be in the bp.conf / registry





Bobby Williams
2205 Peterson Drive
Chattanooga, Tennessee 37421
423-296-8200

-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of srabbi
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:31 PM
To: VERITAS-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: [Veritas-bu] Can a Single NetBackup Client talk to
MultipleMaster?Media?


Hi All,

I am designing a centralized backup/restore solution for 100+ branches.
We are currently using NetBackup to do the data backup at a local tape
library attached to each branch server. Our business folks do not want
to mount/unmount tapes for weekly and incremental backup. So my task is
to find an innovative way to solve this tape handling problem. We also
have a very strict SLA for data restore ( 4 hrs) with business.

I am wondering if I can keep the local tape library in a lock down state
and use it for weekly full backup (i.e overwriting tapes) and do the
incremental back at the central site. This means that each NetBackup
client needs to talk to a Master and Media Server for the Full backup
and then talk to another Master/Media Server for incremental backup over
the WAN. Can a NetBackup client configured to talk ot multiple Master
server? IF so, what is the way to configure it?

My Branch servers are all Win2003 Servers and have medium speed WAN
link.
Any insight to the proposed solution would be much appreciated. I
exhuasted seraching NetBackup documentation and I could not find an
answer (yes/No) to my question. I hope Fourm members can anser to my
question based on their experience. Thanks

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_______________________________________________
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k***@cybernetik.net
2008-03-20 16:10:51 UTC
Permalink
This won't work with the incremental backups. The second master server will think that nothing was backed up and do another full, and hike up their WAN usage.

But I do agree that having one master server with a media server at each site is the better way to go.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Martin" <***@intersil.com>
To: VERITAS-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:38:49 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Can a Single NetBackup Client talk to MultipleMaster?Media?

Yes, you can configure multiple masters as "media servers" and the
client will respond to both masters. The correct way to do this (IMO)
is to make each branch site a Media server, with the master in the data
center. You can do it your way but the first incremental backup will
still be a full since there is no "last" backup to run against.

Single Master - Branch Media Servers
PROS: You can run one policy and write both locally to the branch and
centrally to the master
CONS: If the wan link goes down no backups will fire (until the link
comes back up)

Multiple Masters
PROS: If the wan link goes down backups will still happen
CONS: The client will have no clue what is being backed up to where, so
things backed up locally in the full will still get backed up by the
incremental.

Have you considered data de-duplication? For the price of a library in
most cases you can put 500GB in de-duplicated storage onsite in an
appliance. I'm not sure what your budget looks like but with a SAN
Media server on the branch server you could write the data locally to
the deduplication device and then replicate only the changes back across
the wan to the data center. You get the benefits of a local backup
(speed) and the safety of having a copy offsite (DR.)

Your SLA - is that time to restore an entire down server or just a user
request for files? If you want to put the entire server back in les
than 4 hours your are going to require backups onsite (replicated
offsite) and something like Bare-Metal Restore (comes standard with
Enterprise licenses, I think.)

I love the challenge of architecting a solution.

Good luck!

-Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of srabbi
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:31 PM
To: VERITAS-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: [Veritas-bu] Can a Single NetBackup Client talk to
MultipleMaster?Media?


Hi All,

I am designing a centralized backup/restore solution for 100+ branches.
We are currently using NetBackup to do the data backup at a local tape
library attached to each branch server. Our business folks do not want
to mount/unmount tapes for weekly and incremental backup. So my task is
to find an innovative way to solve this tape handling problem. We also
have a very strict SLA for data restore ( 4 hrs) with business.

I am wondering if I can keep the local tape library in a lock down state
and use it for weekly full backup (i.e overwriting tapes) and do the
incremental back at the central site. This means that each NetBackup
client needs to talk to a Master and Media Server for the Full backup
and then talk to another Master/Media Server for incremental backup over
the WAN. Can a NetBackup client configured to talk ot multiple Master
server? IF so, what is the way to configure it?

My Branch servers are all Win2003 Servers and have medium speed WAN
link. Any insight to the proposed solution would be much appreciated. I
exhuasted seraching NetBackup documentation and I could not find an
answer (yes/No) to my question. I hope Fourm members can anser to my
question based on their experience. Thanks

+----------------------------------------------------------------------
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|Forward SPAM to ***@backupcentral.com.
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Wayne T Smith
2008-03-20 15:42:25 UTC
Permalink
No solution should be based on a single full backup tape that is
rewritten each week! First problem: if a full backup fails, you have
no backup. Second problem: if your full backup overwrites the first,
you have just invalidated (in any logical sense, while probably not
NetBackup sense) any incremental backups.

My sense is to listen to your business folks and trash the branch office
tape drives, if at all possible.

As others have said, "dedup" has created a shift in the way we think
about backups. With dedup storage, the first copy has full cost (some
vendors compress their dedup fragments for further space savings), but
successive backups use a small fraction to store new data. This gives
you multiple backups for immediate restore at the dedup storage site.
Many dedup solutions will replicate to another (perhaps central) site to
enable offsite backup. ExaGrid and Data Domain seem to be two of the
active players in this area. Be aware that NetBackup may or may not be
aware of the replicated data. Expect this area to get better (but
Symantec may charge an arm and a leg to get there).

You might consider all backups over the wire. IBM TSM's forever
incremental does well at backing this sort of thing up. With NetBackup,
you may find that using synthetic backups allows you to skip the need
for most full backups. Can you restore what you need to meet the SLAs
over the wire in 4 hours?

You might take a look at the Puredisk options.

As for full backups to one place and incrementals to another? Sure.
NetBackup requires incremental schedules to be in the same policy as the
full, but each schedule can use a different storage unit/volume pool.
One master ... one or more media servers.

More than just a backup and recovery exercise, you might consider
primary disk storage at each site with "snapshot" capability for primary
backup and then backup the snapshots to central. With the NetApp
storage I have, I can "SnapVault" to a second "filer", dedup it there,
then replicate to a remote filer with "SnapMirror". NetBackup can be
part of this, but is optional.

Lots of options. Please keep us appraised of your thinking and progress!

cheers, wayne
Post by srabbi
I am designing a centralized backup/restore solution for 100+ branches. We are currently using NetBackup to do the data backup at a local tape
library attached to each branch server. Our business folks do not want to
mount/unmount tapes for weekly and incremental backup. So my task is
to find an innovative way to solve this tape handling problem. We also have a very strict SLA for data restore ( 4 hrs) with business.
I am wondering if I can keep the local tape library in a lock down state and use it for weekly full backup (i.e overwriting tapes) and do the incremental back at the central site. This means that each NetBackup client needs to talk to a Master and Media Server for the Full backup and then talk to another Master/Media Server for incremental backup over the WAN. Can a NetBackup client configured to talk ot multiple Master server? IF so, what is the way to configure it?
My Branch servers are all Win2003 Servers and have medium speed WAN link. Any insight to the proposed solution would be much appreciated. I exhuasted seraching NetBackup documentation and I could not find an answer (yes/No) to my question. I hope Fourm members can anser to my question based on their experience. Thanks
Ed Wilts
2008-03-20 16:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne T Smith
No solution should be based on a single full backup tape that is
rewritten each week! First problem: if a full backup fails, you have
no backup. Second problem: if your full backup overwrites the first,
you have just invalidated (in any logical sense, while probably not
NetBackup sense) any incremental backups.
To expand on the first problem...

You can always rerun a backup job if the tape fails, but one of the most
common times for a disk drive to fail is when it's stressed, and this is
frequently during backups. So your disk drive will fail while writing to
your only backup tape - no disk, no tape. Kiss your data goodbye.

Have I seen this in the past? Yes, I have, multiple times, and all of those
locations have since been re-architected.

Tape drives don't belong in remote sites unless you've got real data centers
and real operations staff.

Our business folks do not want to mount/unmount tapes for weekly and
Post by Wayne T Smith
incremental backup.
Then you need tape libraries, not tape drives. And that still assumes you
have real data centers to put them in. Don't even think about putting a
tape drive or library in an office environment unless you like dealing with
failures caused by heat fluctuations, dust, and all of the other stuff that
people tolerate but equipment doesn't.

.../Ed
--
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:***@ewilts.org
tburrell
2008-03-20 21:23:48 UTC
Permalink
I don't see in here how much data you're talking about, but another option is to split your problem up between uptime and data protection...

If you lose a server at a remote site (multi-drive failure in a raidset, spilled coffee, whatever) I can't see making that 4-hour SLA unless you have another server waiting to go. I would explore a 3-layer protection approach:

layer 1- The Oops factor: snapshots. Users recover their own deleted/changed files. You're out of the loop and they control the restores (figure you set it as many times a day as you want, set aside disk). Most restore requests of this type are in the first couple weeks anyway. (MOST- not ALL)

layer 2- Delayed oops factor: remote protection: put a Puredisk de-dupe solution in place to push the data back to your central location. Restores that have rolled of the back of the snapshots above are recoverable from central storage. Takes a bit longer, but often these are less pressing.

Layer 3- Availability- Have 2 file servers at each site with a real-time replication between them (ie: Repliweb, DFS-R or some such). Use DFS- one server dies, re-point the DFS and you're back in business. Less than 4 hours (maybe 4 minutes!) and you're on line. Make sure your 2nd server has snapshots and remote replication going too, so you keep the history.

Sounds expensive, but look at what you get: No remote tape, no remote backup server, fast recovery (2 ways) and long-term offsite storage. You're are already running 100+ tape libraries and backup servers- why make users wait for a restore from tape when you have a perfectly good server sitting just inches away?

Tom
Post by srabbi
Hi All,
I am designing a centralized backup/restore solution for 100+ branches. We are currently using NetBackup to do the data backup at a local tape
library attached to each branch server. Our business folks do not want to
mount/unmount tapes for weekly and incremental backup. So my task is
to find an innovative way to solve this tape handling problem. We also have a very strict SLA for data restore ( 4 hrs) with business.
I am wondering if I can keep the local tape library in a lock down state and use it for weekly full backup (i.e overwriting tapes) and do the incremental back at the central site. This means that each NetBackup client needs to talk to a Master and Media Server for the Full backup and then talk to another Master/Media Server for incremental backup over the WAN. Can a NetBackup client configured to talk ot multiple Master server? IF so, what is the way to configure it?
My Branch servers are all Win2003 Servers and have medium speed WAN link. Any insight to the proposed solution would be much appreciated. I exhuasted seraching NetBackup documentation and I could not find an answer (yes/No) to my question. I hope Fourm members can anser to my question based on their experience. Thanks
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