Discussion:
Nbmail not working
(too old to reply)
Santhakumar, Siva
2008-04-07 05:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi Veritas Gurus,

We have freshly installed NBU 6 MP 5 on a windows server. I have also
installed blat to send mail out as per Veritas KB 254809. I have
confirmed blat is working fine. Tested with sending an email from
command line.


I have modified nbmail.cmd as per Veritas KB, and this is how my
nbmail.cmd file looks like this.

@IF "%~4"=="" ( blat %3 -s %2 -t 1% -q
) ELSE (
blat %3 -s %2 -t 1% -q -attach %4
)

Since server and from address is already defined in blat I am leaving
-server and -i options

I have enabled logging to trouble shoot this issue. So this what I see
in the log.

08:20:26.901 [4804.1664] <2> sendViaScript: attempting to send mail
08:20:26.901 [4804.1664] <2> sendViaScript: C:\Program
Files\VERITAS\NetBackup\bin\nbmail.cmd "***@myserver.com" "Backup on
bk101 - 0" "C:\DOCUME~1\BACKUP~2\LOCALS~1\Temp\nb_202.tmp"
08:20:32.073 [4804.1664] <2> bpbrm Exit: client backup EXIT STATUS 0:
the requested operation was successfully completed

But I am not getting any emails from VERITAS.

Could you help me please?


Siva Santhakumar ( Santha )
N***@discovery.com
2008-04-07 19:35:15 UTC
Permalink
Check your smtp server and make sure it's not blocking. if it is then add
your servers IP to the list.





"Santhakumar, Siva" <***@navitaire.com>
Sent by: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
04/07/2008 01:22 AM

To
<veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu>
cc

Subject
[Veritas-bu] Nbmail not working







Hi Veritas Gurus,

We have freshly installed NBU 6 MP 5 on a windows server. I have also
installed blat to send mail out as per Veritas KB 254809. I have
confirmed blat is working fine. Tested with sending an email from
command line.


I have modified nbmail.cmd as per Veritas KB, and this is how my
nbmail.cmd file looks like this.

@IF "%~4"=="" ( blat %3 -s %2 -t 1% -q
) ELSE (
blat %3 -s %2 -t 1% -q -attach %4
)

Since server and from address is already defined in blat I am leaving
-server and -i options

I have enabled logging to trouble shoot this issue. So this what I see
in the log.

08:20:26.901 [4804.1664] <2> sendViaScript: attempting to send mail
08:20:26.901 [4804.1664] <2> sendViaScript: C:\Program
Files\VERITAS\NetBackup\bin\nbmail.cmd "***@myserver.com" "Backup on
bk101 - 0" "C:\DOCUME~1\BACKUP~2\LOCALS~1\Temp\nb_202.tmp"
08:20:32.073 [4804.1664] <2> bpbrm Exit: client backup EXIT STATUS 0:
the requested operation was successfully completed

But I am not getting any emails from VERITAS.

Could you help me please?


Siva Santhakumar ( Santha )


_______________________________________________
Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu



Own the landmark Planet Earth series on DVD! Find more great gifts by shopping online at http://discoverystore.com

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Iverson, Jerald
2008-04-08 04:36:28 UTC
Permalink
environment: netbackup 6.0mp4, redhat linux master/media, exchange 2003
client

my exchange admins need to restore the public folder (.edb?) file to an
alternate machine without bringing up exchange. the netbackup gui only
drills down to the storage group, and not the individual files. i
believe that it used to show the files in exchange 2000, where you
could see the priv and pub files, etc to choose what to restore. i
think exchange 2003 hides this so that an exchange admin can easily
restore to a "recovery storage group" for a normal exchange database. i
don't deal with exchange, but our exchange admins say that public
folders cannot be restored to an "rsg", and also cannot be restored to
an alternate machine. if they can get the files restored as a flat file
to another machine, they have tools that can extract the data they need.
has anyone out there had to do this? can you let me know what
procedures you did to accomplish this?

here is the structure that i see from the gui "dump"ed from the
netbackup catalog information:

/Microsoft Information Store/ 16832 root root 0 1207265411 1207265411
1207265411
/Microsoft Information Store/XPF02_SG1/ 16832 root root 0 1207265411
1207265411 1207265411
/Microsoft Information Store/XPF02_SG1/Public Folder Store (XPF02)
33216 root root 2106544426 1207265411 1207265411 1207265411
/Microsoft Information Store/XPF02_SG1/USHOUXPF02_SG1_MS1 33216 root
root 1481789730 1207292814 1207292814 1207292814
/Microsoft Information Store/XPF02_SG1/Log files_1207265400 33216 root
root 104858800 1207292886 1207292886 1207292886

the fields are: path, permissions?, owner, group, size, modified,
changed, access times.

thanks in advance,
jerald


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Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this
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and/or privileged material. It is intended solely for the
person(s) or entity to which it is addressed. Any review,
retransmission, dissemination, or taking of any action in
reliance upon this information by persons or entities other
than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you received
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Randy Samora
2008-04-08 14:08:08 UTC
Permalink
I think I know the answer but I need to know for sure.



Months (years) ago, when the VSP files were getting orphaned and there
was talk of having me driven out into the country and "dealt with," I
placed all of my clients in the Master Server properties and checked the
box "Enable Windows Open File Backups for this client." That resolved
my problem at the time. Now I want to start using VSS and I have a
couple of questions.



1. If I want to start using VSS on my old clients, I know I need to
enable VSS on the client itself but what happens at the Master? Do I
check the Open File Backups for that client and select VSS instead of
VSP?

2. What is the default behavior? If I deleted all of the clients
from the Client Attributes tab of the Master Server properties, what
would occur on those clients in regards to open file backups?

3. If I bring a new client on line with the default install, does it
do open file backups by default?





It appears that for each client I want to use open file backups, I have
to add the client to the Master Server properties and then configure the
open file options. That's easy to do but I've always had doubts because
it doesn't seem logical. I would think everyone wants to backup all of
their data including open files if possible. Why would NBU make you go
through extra steps for what should be a default behavior?



Today, when I add a new client, I enable VSS on all volumes of the
client, add the client to the Master Server properties, Enable Open File
Backups is checked and I configure the options. Am I running the setup
correctly or is there an easier way? What options does the client have
if I don't add the client to the Master Server properties?



I hope this makes sense and thanks in advance for any insight you can
throw my way.



Randy
WEAVER, Simon (external)
2008-04-09 12:25:24 UTC
Permalink
Jerald
They are correct. RSG supports "Mailbox" stores, never intended for
Public Folder Stores.
If the backups were carried out while Exchange was "online" using the
agent, then you cannot restore the files themselves.

The only way you could have done this, is when the Public folder store
was dismounted, allowing you to backup the single files themselves. but
this would mean public folders would be inaccessible to users while the
store is down.

You can restore to an alternative server, but this assumes its running
Microsft Exchange 2003 as well.

Could you not restore to the same server, then when the restore
completes, shutdown the public folder store, which will give them (the
people making this request) access to the flat files?

Simon

________________________________

From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Iverson,
Jerald
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:36 AM
To: veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: [Veritas-bu] exchange 2003 public folder alternate restore


environment: netbackup 6.0mp4, redhat linux master/media, exchange 2003
client

my exchange admins need to restore the public folder (.edb?) file to an
alternate machine without bringing up exchange. the netbackup gui only
drills down to the storage group, and not the individual files. i
believe that it used to show the files in exchange 2000, where you
could see the priv and pub files, etc to choose what to restore. i
think exchange 2003 hides this so that an exchange admin can easily
restore to a "recovery storage group" for a normal exchange database. i
don't deal with exchange, but our exchange admins say that public
folders cannot be restored to an "rsg", and also cannot be restored to
an alternate machine. if they can get the files restored as a flat file
to another machine, they have tools that can extract the data they need.
has anyone out there had to do this? can you let me know what
procedures you did to accomplish this?

here is the structure that i see from the gui "dump"ed from the
netbackup catalog information:

/Microsoft Information Store/ 16832 root root 0 1207265411 1207265411
1207265411
/Microsoft Information Store/XPF02_SG1/ 16832 root root 0 1207265411
1207265411 1207265411
/Microsoft Information Store/XPF02_SG1/Public Folder Store (XPF02)
33216 root root 2106544426 1207265411 1207265411 1207265411
/Microsoft Information Store/XPF02_SG1/USHOUXPF02_SG1_MS1 33216 root
root 1481789730 1207292814 1207292814 1207292814
/Microsoft Information Store/XPF02_SG1/Log files_1207265400 33216 root
root 104858800 1207292886 1207292886 1207292886

the fields are: path, permissions?, owner, group, size, modified,
changed, access times.

thanks in advance,
jerald


****************************************************************
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person(s) or entity to which it is addressed. Any review,
retransmission, dissemination, or taking of any action in
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than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
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Rosenkoetter, Gabriel
2008-04-08 19:48:14 UTC
Permalink
The following is my understanding, but I don't promise I'm Right about
it. :^>

At Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:08 AM, Randy Samora
Post by Randy Samora
1. If I want to start using VSS on my old clients, I know I need
to enable VSS on the client itself but what happens at the Master?
Do I check the Open File Backups for that client and select VSS
instead of VSP?
I don't believe that there is anything specific one needs to do on the
client itself. You need to explicitly select VSS instead of VSP, bearing
in mind that VSP only works with WindowsNET and newer clients (ie,
versions of Windows that provide the Volume Shadow Copy Service). In
particular, Win2k does not while Win2k3 does.

I'm not sure what happens if you tell a client that can't do VSS to do
so... I don't believe that it will fall back to VSP, I believe that it
will either fail with a 156 or (if so configured in the client DB)
disable snapshots (and open file backups) and proceed.
Post by Randy Samora
2. What is the default behavior? If I deleted all of the clients
from the Client Attributes tab of the Master Server properties,
what would occur on those clients in regards to open file backups?
The default for all Windows clients is WOFB enabled, use VSP, fail (with
a 156) if the snapshot fails.

(So, imho, you should have been modifying the client DB all along to
flip the "if snapshot fails" bit.)
Post by Randy Samora
3. If I bring a new client on line with the default install,
does it do open file backups by default?
Yes, but it will use VSP, which will fail if the client host hasn't been
rebooted after the client software was installed to enable the VSP
module.
Post by Randy Samora
It appears that for each client I want to use open file backups, I
have to add the client to the Master Server properties and then
configure the open file options. That.s easy to do but I.ve always
had doubts because it doesn.t seem logical.
It doesn't seem logical because the GUI design is boneheaded.

What you are really doing with that pointy-clicky bit is creating (or
modifying, if it already existed) a file whose name matches the client
under /usr/openv/netbackup/db/client (yes, even under 6.5 where
"everything but images" is supposedly in DB form). You do the same thing
on the command line with the bpclient command. (Well, that's what you're
doing on Unix masters. I don't really know (or care, honestly) where
Windows masters servers store the same data.)

It's in the Master section of the GUI's host properties because it
modifies settings on the master, which is obviously backward engineered
thinking, but now that everybody's used to finding it there, it probably
won't change. The Clients section of that same tree strictly modifies
settings that are stored on the client host, but these directives are
something that bpbrm needs to know when it goes and tells the client to
start generating backup streams, so it's not configuration that
logically belongs on the client.
Post by Randy Samora
Today, when I add a new client, I enable VSS on all volumes of the
client, add the client to the Master Server properties, Enable Open
File Backups is checked and I configure the options.
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the
client". I don't think I do anything that resembles that. Are you
talking about the option to perform snapshot backups in the Policy
configuration? Although that can use VSS or VSP, it's not the same thing
as WOFB. If not that, where's the configuration you're describing?

I trust someone will correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above.
(Except the whole Master host properties thing. That really is just
stupid. ;^>)

--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556
Randy Samora
2008-04-08 20:10:49 UTC
Permalink
Thank you, thank you, thank you, that is a lot of very useful insight
and I'm glad I finally asked.



One more question for clarification. In reference to "I guess I'm not
sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the client". If that
statement isn't obvious, then I'm already beginning to panic thinking
I've done something wrong. I've been buried up to my eyeballs in
NetBackup for so long that my basic Windows skills are just about
obsolete. But what I was referring to is for each client on which I
want to use VSS, I go into Windows Explorer, right click on a volume (Y:
drive for example) and I Enable VSS and then configure the schedule for
the shadow copy. In my case, I delete the two default schedules and I
create a "Once" schedule for five years down the road. By that time the
hardware will have been replaced so I don't have to worry about VSS
copies eating up disk space unnecessarily. The only copies being made
are during the backups; or so I assume. Is this not correct? I thought
that by default, VSS was not enabled on a Win2k3 server and had to be
manually enabled and then configured for size, schedule and location of
the file. I tried to ask a Symantec Engineer once during an open ticket
for something else but he told me to ask Microsoft.



Is there a better way?



Thanks

randy



-----Original Message-----
From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:48 PM
To: Randy Samora; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



The following is my understanding, but I don't promise I'm Right about

it. :^>



At Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:08 AM, Randy Samora
Post by Randy Samora
1. If I want to start using VSS on my old clients, I know I need
to enable VSS on the client itself but what happens at the Master?
Do I check the Open File Backups for that client and select VSS
instead of VSP?
I don't believe that there is anything specific one needs to do on the

client itself. You need to explicitly select VSS instead of VSP, bearing

in mind that VSP only works with WindowsNET and newer clients (ie,

versions of Windows that provide the Volume Shadow Copy Service). In

particular, Win2k does not while Win2k3 does.



I'm not sure what happens if you tell a client that can't do VSS to do

so... I don't believe that it will fall back to VSP, I believe that it

will either fail with a 156 or (if so configured in the client DB)

disable snapshots (and open file backups) and proceed.
Post by Randy Samora
2. What is the default behavior? If I deleted all of the clients
from the Client Attributes tab of the Master Server properties,
what would occur on those clients in regards to open file backups?
The default for all Windows clients is WOFB enabled, use VSP, fail (with

a 156) if the snapshot fails.



(So, imho, you should have been modifying the client DB all along to

flip the "if snapshot fails" bit.)
Post by Randy Samora
3. If I bring a new client on line with the default install,
does it do open file backups by default?
Yes, but it will use VSP, which will fail if the client host hasn't been

rebooted after the client software was installed to enable the VSP

module.
Post by Randy Samora
It appears that for each client I want to use open file backups, I
have to add the client to the Master Server properties and then
configure the open file options. That.s easy to do but I.ve always
had doubts because it doesn.t seem logical.
It doesn't seem logical because the GUI design is boneheaded.



What you are really doing with that pointy-clicky bit is creating (or

modifying, if it already existed) a file whose name matches the client

under /usr/openv/netbackup/db/client (yes, even under 6.5 where

"everything but images" is supposedly in DB form). You do the same thing

on the command line with the bpclient command. (Well, that's what you're

doing on Unix masters. I don't really know (or care, honestly) where

Windows masters servers store the same data.)



It's in the Master section of the GUI's host properties because it

modifies settings on the master, which is obviously backward engineered

thinking, but now that everybody's used to finding it there, it probably

won't change. The Clients section of that same tree strictly modifies

settings that are stored on the client host, but these directives are

something that bpbrm needs to know when it goes and tells the client to

start generating backup streams, so it's not configuration that

logically belongs on the client.
Post by Randy Samora
Today, when I add a new client, I enable VSS on all volumes of the
client, add the client to the Master Server properties, Enable Open
File Backups is checked and I configure the options.
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the

client". I don't think I do anything that resembles that. Are you

talking about the option to perform snapshot backups in the Policy

configuration? Although that can use VSS or VSP, it's not the same thing

as WOFB. If not that, where's the configuration you're describing?



I trust someone will correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above.

(Except the whole Master host properties thing. That really is just

stupid. ;^>)



--

gabriel rosenkoetter

Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery

***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556
Rosenkoetter, Gabriel
2008-04-08 20:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Wow.

No, I've never once done that.

It was my understanding, working strictly from Symantec/Veritas
documentation, that NetBackup went and created its own snapshots as
configured in the client DB section on the master for WOFB purposes and
didn't need any client-side preparation.

It sounds like what you're doing is configuring (well, "unconfiguring"),
on each of your servers, a scheduled snapshot which can be accessed from
that server should a file be removed or modified. That's all well and
good, and that is a nice feature (present in most modern volume
managers; MS is a bit behind the times on including it), but it's got
nothing to do with NetBackup. NetBackup doesn't care about whatever VSS
snapshots you've already got scheduled for yourself on the host, it
creates its own in order to perform WOFBackups by speaking through an
API to the same Service that you're getting to with Windows Explorer.

There's nothing wrong with what you're doing, but it's not necessary
(unless I'm grossly mistaken) to make NetBackup's WOFB functionality Go.
NBU will go turn the service on when it needs it for the backup and then
back off again when it's done. I'm pretty sure you can just strike that
step of your process off the list entirely.

--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556



_____

From: Randy Samora [mailto:***@stewart.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:11 PM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



Thank you, thank you, thank you, that is a lot of very useful insight
and I'm glad I finally asked.



One more question for clarification. In reference to "I guess I'm not
sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the client". If that
statement isn't obvious, then I'm already beginning to panic thinking
I've done something wrong. I've been buried up to my eyeballs in
NetBackup for so long that my basic Windows skills are just about
obsolete. But what I was referring to is for each client on which I
want to use VSS, I go into Windows Explorer, right click on a volume (Y:
drive for example) and I Enable VSS and then configure the schedule for
the shadow copy. In my case, I delete the two default schedules and I
create a "Once" schedule for five years down the road. By that time the
hardware will have been replaced so I don't have to worry about VSS
copies eating up disk space unnecessarily. The only copies being made
are during the backups; or so I assume. Is this not correct? I thought
that by default, VSS was not enabled on a Win2k3 server and had to be
manually enabled and then configured for size, schedule and location of
the file. I tried to ask a Symantec Engineer once during an open ticket
for something else but he told me to ask Microsoft.



Is there a better way?



Thanks

randy



-----Original Message-----
From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:48 PM
To: Randy Samora; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



The following is my understanding, but I don't promise I'm Right about

it. :^>



At Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:08 AM, Randy Samora
Post by Randy Samora
1. If I want to start using VSS on my old clients, I know I need
to enable VSS on the client itself but what happens at the Master?
Do I check the Open File Backups for that client and select VSS
instead of VSP?
I don't believe that there is anything specific one needs to do on the

client itself. You need to explicitly select VSS instead of VSP, bearing

in mind that VSP only works with WindowsNET and newer clients (ie,

versions of Windows that provide the Volume Shadow Copy Service). In

particular, Win2k does not while Win2k3 does.



I'm not sure what happens if you tell a client that can't do VSS to do

so... I don't believe that it will fall back to VSP, I believe that it

will either fail with a 156 or (if so configured in the client DB)

disable snapshots (and open file backups) and proceed.
Post by Randy Samora
2. What is the default behavior? If I deleted all of the clients
from the Client Attributes tab of the Master Server properties,
what would occur on those clients in regards to open file backups?
The default for all Windows clients is WOFB enabled, use VSP, fail (with

a 156) if the snapshot fails.



(So, imho, you should have been modifying the client DB all along to

flip the "if snapshot fails" bit.)
Post by Randy Samora
3. If I bring a new client on line with the default install,
does it do open file backups by default?
Yes, but it will use VSP, which will fail if the client host hasn't been

rebooted after the client software was installed to enable the VSP

module.
Post by Randy Samora
It appears that for each client I want to use open file backups, I
have to add the client to the Master Server properties and then
configure the open file options. That.s easy to do but I.ve always
had doubts because it doesn.t seem logical.
It doesn't seem logical because the GUI design is boneheaded.



What you are really doing with that pointy-clicky bit is creating (or

modifying, if it already existed) a file whose name matches the client

under /usr/openv/netbackup/db/client (yes, even under 6.5 where

"everything but images" is supposedly in DB form). You do the same thing

on the command line with the bpclient command. (Well, that's what you're

doing on Unix masters. I don't really know (or care, honestly) where

Windows masters servers store the same data.)



It's in the Master section of the GUI's host properties because it

modifies settings on the master, which is obviously backward engineered

thinking, but now that everybody's used to finding it there, it probably

won't change. The Clients section of that same tree strictly modifies

settings that are stored on the client host, but these directives are

something that bpbrm needs to know when it goes and tells the client to

start generating backup streams, so it's not configuration that

logically belongs on the client.
Post by Randy Samora
Today, when I add a new client, I enable VSS on all volumes of the
client, add the client to the Master Server properties, Enable Open
File Backups is checked and I configure the options.
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the

client". I don't think I do anything that resembles that. Are you

talking about the option to perform snapshot backups in the Policy

configuration? Although that can use VSS or VSP, it's not the same thing

as WOFB. If not that, where's the configuration you're describing?



I trust someone will correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above.

(Except the whole Master host properties thing. That really is just

stupid. ;^>)



--

gabriel rosenkoetter

Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery

***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556
Randy Samora
2008-04-08 20:21:57 UTC
Permalink
We're hiring, are you interested J Just kidding but thank you for the
response. Over 700 Windows clients. I'm not about to admit how many of
them I have done this to.



Thanks again,

Randy



From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:19 PM
To: Randy Samora; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



Wow.



No, I've never once done that.



It was my understanding, working strictly from Symantec/Veritas
documentation, that NetBackup went and created its own snapshots as
configured in the client DB section on the master for WOFB purposes and
didn't need any client-side preparation.



It sounds like what you're doing is configuring (well, "unconfiguring"),
on each of your servers, a scheduled snapshot which can be accessed from
that server should a file be removed or modified. That's all well and
good, and that is a nice feature (present in most modern volume
managers; MS is a bit behind the times on including it), but it's got
nothing to do with NetBackup. NetBackup doesn't care about whatever VSS
snapshots you've already got scheduled for yourself on the host, it
creates its own in order to perform WOFBackups by speaking through an
API to the same Service that you're getting to with Windows Explorer.



There's nothing wrong with what you're doing, but it's not necessary
(unless I'm grossly mistaken) to make NetBackup's WOFB functionality Go.
NBU will go turn the service on when it needs it for the backup and then
back off again when it's done. I'm pretty sure you can just strike that
step of your process off the list entirely.

--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556





________________________________

From: Randy Samora [mailto:***@stewart.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:11 PM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups

Thank you, thank you, thank you, that is a lot of very useful insight
and I'm glad I finally asked.



One more question for clarification. In reference to "I guess I'm not
sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the client". If that
statement isn't obvious, then I'm already beginning to panic thinking
I've done something wrong. I've been buried up to my eyeballs in
NetBackup for so long that my basic Windows skills are just about
obsolete. But what I was referring to is for each client on which I
want to use VSS, I go into Windows Explorer, right click on a volume (Y:
drive for example) and I Enable VSS and then configure the schedule for
the shadow copy. In my case, I delete the two default schedules and I
create a "Once" schedule for five years down the road. By that time the
hardware will have been replaced so I don't have to worry about VSS
copies eating up disk space unnecessarily. The only copies being made
are during the backups; or so I assume. Is this not correct? I thought
that by default, VSS was not enabled on a Win2k3 server and had to be
manually enabled and then configured for size, schedule and location of
the file. I tried to ask a Symantec Engineer once during an open ticket
for something else but he told me to ask Microsoft.



Is there a better way?



Thanks

randy



-----Original Message-----
From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:48 PM
To: Randy Samora; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



The following is my understanding, but I don't promise I'm Right about

it. :^>



At Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:08 AM, Randy Samora
Post by Randy Samora
1. If I want to start using VSS on my old clients, I know I need
to enable VSS on the client itself but what happens at the Master?
Do I check the Open File Backups for that client and select VSS
instead of VSP?
I don't believe that there is anything specific one needs to do on the

client itself. You need to explicitly select VSS instead of VSP, bearing

in mind that VSP only works with WindowsNET and newer clients (ie,

versions of Windows that provide the Volume Shadow Copy Service). In

particular, Win2k does not while Win2k3 does.



I'm not sure what happens if you tell a client that can't do VSS to do

so... I don't believe that it will fall back to VSP, I believe that it

will either fail with a 156 or (if so configured in the client DB)

disable snapshots (and open file backups) and proceed.
Post by Randy Samora
2. What is the default behavior? If I deleted all of the clients
from the Client Attributes tab of the Master Server properties,
what would occur on those clients in regards to open file backups?
The default for all Windows clients is WOFB enabled, use VSP, fail (with

a 156) if the snapshot fails.



(So, imho, you should have been modifying the client DB all along to

flip the "if snapshot fails" bit.)
Post by Randy Samora
3. If I bring a new client on line with the default install,
does it do open file backups by default?
Yes, but it will use VSP, which will fail if the client host hasn't been

rebooted after the client software was installed to enable the VSP

module.
Post by Randy Samora
It appears that for each client I want to use open file backups, I
have to add the client to the Master Server properties and then
configure the open file options. That.s easy to do but I.ve always
had doubts because it doesn.t seem logical.
It doesn't seem logical because the GUI design is boneheaded.



What you are really doing with that pointy-clicky bit is creating (or

modifying, if it already existed) a file whose name matches the client

under /usr/openv/netbackup/db/client (yes, even under 6.5 where

"everything but images" is supposedly in DB form). You do the same thing

on the command line with the bpclient command. (Well, that's what you're

doing on Unix masters. I don't really know (or care, honestly) where

Windows masters servers store the same data.)



It's in the Master section of the GUI's host properties because it

modifies settings on the master, which is obviously backward engineered

thinking, but now that everybody's used to finding it there, it probably

won't change. The Clients section of that same tree strictly modifies

settings that are stored on the client host, but these directives are

something that bpbrm needs to know when it goes and tells the client to

start generating backup streams, so it's not configuration that

logically belongs on the client.
Post by Randy Samora
Today, when I add a new client, I enable VSS on all volumes of the
client, add the client to the Master Server properties, Enable Open
File Backups is checked and I configure the options.
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the

client". I don't think I do anything that resembles that. Are you

talking about the option to perform snapshot backups in the Policy

configuration? Although that can use VSS or VSP, it's not the same thing

as WOFB. If not that, where's the configuration you're describing?



I trust someone will correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above.

(Except the whole Master host properties thing. That really is just

stupid. ;^>)



--

gabriel rosenkoetter

Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery

***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556
Randy Samora
2008-04-09 01:53:16 UTC
Permalink
I want to verify that I don't have to anything at the Windows OS level
to allow NetBackup to use VSS on that client so I'm going to change the
settings on one client and leave them as is on another. What's the
easiest way to verify that they are both still using VSP?



Thanks,

Randy



From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Randy
Samora
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:22 PM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



We're hiring, are you interested J Just kidding but thank you for the
response. Over 700 Windows clients. I'm not about to admit how many of
them I have done this to.



Thanks again,

Randy



From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:19 PM
To: Randy Samora; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



Wow.



No, I've never once done that.



It was my understanding, working strictly from Symantec/Veritas
documentation, that NetBackup went and created its own snapshots as
configured in the client DB section on the master for WOFB purposes and
didn't need any client-side preparation.



It sounds like what you're doing is configuring (well, "unconfiguring"),
on each of your servers, a scheduled snapshot which can be accessed from
that server should a file be removed or modified. That's all well and
good, and that is a nice feature (present in most modern volume
managers; MS is a bit behind the times on including it), but it's got
nothing to do with NetBackup. NetBackup doesn't care about whatever VSS
snapshots you've already got scheduled for yourself on the host, it
creates its own in order to perform WOFBackups by speaking through an
API to the same Service that you're getting to with Windows Explorer.



There's nothing wrong with what you're doing, but it's not necessary
(unless I'm grossly mistaken) to make NetBackup's WOFB functionality Go.
NBU will go turn the service on when it needs it for the backup and then
back off again when it's done. I'm pretty sure you can just strike that
step of your process off the list entirely.

--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556





________________________________

From: Randy Samora [mailto:***@stewart.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:11 PM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups

Thank you, thank you, thank you, that is a lot of very useful insight
and I'm glad I finally asked.



One more question for clarification. In reference to "I guess I'm not
sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the client". If that
statement isn't obvious, then I'm already beginning to panic thinking
I've done something wrong. I've been buried up to my eyeballs in
NetBackup for so long that my basic Windows skills are just about
obsolete. But what I was referring to is for each client on which I
want to use VSS, I go into Windows Explorer, right click on a volume (Y:
drive for example) and I Enable VSS and then configure the schedule for
the shadow copy. In my case, I delete the two default schedules and I
create a "Once" schedule for five years down the road. By that time the
hardware will have been replaced so I don't have to worry about VSS
copies eating up disk space unnecessarily. The only copies being made
are during the backups; or so I assume. Is this not correct? I thought
that by default, VSS was not enabled on a Win2k3 server and had to be
manually enabled and then configured for size, schedule and location of
the file. I tried to ask a Symantec Engineer once during an open ticket
for something else but he told me to ask Microsoft.



Is there a better way?



Thanks

randy



-----Original Message-----
From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:48 PM
To: Randy Samora; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



The following is my understanding, but I don't promise I'm Right about

it. :^>



At Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:08 AM, Randy Samora
Post by Randy Samora
1. If I want to start using VSS on my old clients, I know I need
to enable VSS on the client itself but what happens at the Master?
Do I check the Open File Backups for that client and select VSS
instead of VSP?
I don't believe that there is anything specific one needs to do on the

client itself. You need to explicitly select VSS instead of VSP, bearing

in mind that VSP only works with WindowsNET and newer clients (ie,

versions of Windows that provide the Volume Shadow Copy Service). In

particular, Win2k does not while Win2k3 does.



I'm not sure what happens if you tell a client that can't do VSS to do

so... I don't believe that it will fall back to VSP, I believe that it

will either fail with a 156 or (if so configured in the client DB)

disable snapshots (and open file backups) and proceed.
Post by Randy Samora
2. What is the default behavior? If I deleted all of the clients
from the Client Attributes tab of the Master Server properties,
what would occur on those clients in regards to open file backups?
The default for all Windows clients is WOFB enabled, use VSP, fail (with

a 156) if the snapshot fails.



(So, imho, you should have been modifying the client DB all along to

flip the "if snapshot fails" bit.)
Post by Randy Samora
3. If I bring a new client on line with the default install,
does it do open file backups by default?
Yes, but it will use VSP, which will fail if the client host hasn't been

rebooted after the client software was installed to enable the VSP

module.
Post by Randy Samora
It appears that for each client I want to use open file backups, I
have to add the client to the Master Server properties and then
configure the open file options. That.s easy to do but I.ve always
had doubts because it doesn.t seem logical.
It doesn't seem logical because the GUI design is boneheaded.



What you are really doing with that pointy-clicky bit is creating (or

modifying, if it already existed) a file whose name matches the client

under /usr/openv/netbackup/db/client (yes, even under 6.5 where

"everything but images" is supposedly in DB form). You do the same thing

on the command line with the bpclient command. (Well, that's what you're

doing on Unix masters. I don't really know (or care, honestly) where

Windows masters servers store the same data.)



It's in the Master section of the GUI's host properties because it

modifies settings on the master, which is obviously backward engineered

thinking, but now that everybody's used to finding it there, it probably

won't change. The Clients section of that same tree strictly modifies

settings that are stored on the client host, but these directives are

something that bpbrm needs to know when it goes and tells the client to

start generating backup streams, so it's not configuration that

logically belongs on the client.
Post by Randy Samora
Today, when I add a new client, I enable VSS on all volumes of the
client, add the client to the Master Server properties, Enable Open
File Backups is checked and I configure the options.
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the

client". I don't think I do anything that resembles that. Are you

talking about the option to perform snapshot backups in the Policy

configuration? Although that can use VSS or VSP, it's not the same thing

as WOFB. If not that, where's the configuration you're describing?



I trust someone will correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above.

(Except the whole Master host properties thing. That really is just

stupid. ;^>)



--

gabriel rosenkoetter

Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery

***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556
Randy Samora
2008-04-09 01:56:26 UTC
Permalink
I meant VSS, not VSP.



From: Randy Samora
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:53 PM
To: Randy Samora; Rosenkoetter, Gabriel;
veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



I want to verify that I don't have to anything at the Windows OS level
to allow NetBackup to use VSS on that client so I'm going to change the
settings on one client and leave them as is on another. What's the
easiest way to verify that they are both still using VSP?



Thanks,

Randy



From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Randy
Samora
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:22 PM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



We're hiring, are you interested J Just kidding but thank you for the
response. Over 700 Windows clients. I'm not about to admit how many of
them I have done this to.



Thanks again,

Randy



From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:19 PM
To: Randy Samora; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



Wow.



No, I've never once done that.



It was my understanding, working strictly from Symantec/Veritas
documentation, that NetBackup went and created its own snapshots as
configured in the client DB section on the master for WOFB purposes and
didn't need any client-side preparation.



It sounds like what you're doing is configuring (well, "unconfiguring"),
on each of your servers, a scheduled snapshot which can be accessed from
that server should a file be removed or modified. That's all well and
good, and that is a nice feature (present in most modern volume
managers; MS is a bit behind the times on including it), but it's got
nothing to do with NetBackup. NetBackup doesn't care about whatever VSS
snapshots you've already got scheduled for yourself on the host, it
creates its own in order to perform WOFBackups by speaking through an
API to the same Service that you're getting to with Windows Explorer.



There's nothing wrong with what you're doing, but it's not necessary
(unless I'm grossly mistaken) to make NetBackup's WOFB functionality Go.
NBU will go turn the service on when it needs it for the backup and then
back off again when it's done. I'm pretty sure you can just strike that
step of your process off the list entirely.

--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556





________________________________

From: Randy Samora [mailto:***@stewart.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:11 PM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups

Thank you, thank you, thank you, that is a lot of very useful insight
and I'm glad I finally asked.



One more question for clarification. In reference to "I guess I'm not
sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the client". If that
statement isn't obvious, then I'm already beginning to panic thinking
I've done something wrong. I've been buried up to my eyeballs in
NetBackup for so long that my basic Windows skills are just about
obsolete. But what I was referring to is for each client on which I
want to use VSS, I go into Windows Explorer, right click on a volume (Y:
drive for example) and I Enable VSS and then configure the schedule for
the shadow copy. In my case, I delete the two default schedules and I
create a "Once" schedule for five years down the road. By that time the
hardware will have been replaced so I don't have to worry about VSS
copies eating up disk space unnecessarily. The only copies being made
are during the backups; or so I assume. Is this not correct? I thought
that by default, VSS was not enabled on a Win2k3 server and had to be
manually enabled and then configured for size, schedule and location of
the file. I tried to ask a Symantec Engineer once during an open ticket
for something else but he told me to ask Microsoft.



Is there a better way?



Thanks

randy



-----Original Message-----
From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:48 PM
To: Randy Samora; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



The following is my understanding, but I don't promise I'm Right about

it. :^>



At Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:08 AM, Randy Samora
Post by Randy Samora
1. If I want to start using VSS on my old clients, I know I need
to enable VSS on the client itself but what happens at the Master?
Do I check the Open File Backups for that client and select VSS
instead of VSP?
I don't believe that there is anything specific one needs to do on the

client itself. You need to explicitly select VSS instead of VSP, bearing

in mind that VSP only works with WindowsNET and newer clients (ie,

versions of Windows that provide the Volume Shadow Copy Service). In

particular, Win2k does not while Win2k3 does.



I'm not sure what happens if you tell a client that can't do VSS to do

so... I don't believe that it will fall back to VSP, I believe that it

will either fail with a 156 or (if so configured in the client DB)

disable snapshots (and open file backups) and proceed.
Post by Randy Samora
2. What is the default behavior? If I deleted all of the clients
from the Client Attributes tab of the Master Server properties,
what would occur on those clients in regards to open file backups?
The default for all Windows clients is WOFB enabled, use VSP, fail (with

a 156) if the snapshot fails.



(So, imho, you should have been modifying the client DB all along to

flip the "if snapshot fails" bit.)
Post by Randy Samora
3. If I bring a new client on line with the default install,
does it do open file backups by default?
Yes, but it will use VSP, which will fail if the client host hasn't been

rebooted after the client software was installed to enable the VSP

module.
Post by Randy Samora
It appears that for each client I want to use open file backups, I
have to add the client to the Master Server properties and then
configure the open file options. That.s easy to do but I.ve always
had doubts because it doesn.t seem logical.
It doesn't seem logical because the GUI design is boneheaded.



What you are really doing with that pointy-clicky bit is creating (or

modifying, if it already existed) a file whose name matches the client

under /usr/openv/netbackup/db/client (yes, even under 6.5 where

"everything but images" is supposedly in DB form). You do the same thing

on the command line with the bpclient command. (Well, that's what you're

doing on Unix masters. I don't really know (or care, honestly) where

Windows masters servers store the same data.)



It's in the Master section of the GUI's host properties because it

modifies settings on the master, which is obviously backward engineered

thinking, but now that everybody's used to finding it there, it probably

won't change. The Clients section of that same tree strictly modifies

settings that are stored on the client host, but these directives are

something that bpbrm needs to know when it goes and tells the client to

start generating backup streams, so it's not configuration that

logically belongs on the client.
Post by Randy Samora
Today, when I add a new client, I enable VSS on all volumes of the
client, add the client to the Master Server properties, Enable Open
File Backups is checked and I configure the options.
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the

client". I don't think I do anything that resembles that. Are you

talking about the option to perform snapshot backups in the Policy

configuration? Although that can use VSS or VSP, it's not the same thing

as WOFB. If not that, where's the configuration you're describing?



I trust someone will correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above.

(Except the whole Master host properties thing. That really is just

stupid. ;^>)



--

gabriel rosenkoetter

Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery

***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556
Ed Wilts
2008-04-09 01:59:15 UTC
Permalink
I want to verify that I don't have to anything at the Windows OS level to
allow NetBackup to use VSS on that client so I'm going to change the
settings on one client and leave them as is on another. What's the easiest
way to verify that they are both still using VSP?
If VSP.SYS exists in system32\drivers (I think - double-check that
location), then VSP gets used. Uninstall the client, reboot, and re-install
the client without VSP using a custom install.

Be aware that in some rare cases, the system may not come up after VSP is
uninstalled. Some people have seen this multiple times (lucky me) and some
people have never seen it.

.../Ed
--
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:***@ewilts.org
Rosenkoetter, Gabriel
2008-04-08 20:26:04 UTC
Permalink
Oi, reading the below I find, of course, I missed a glaring error in
proof-reading.

I assert "that VSP only works with WindowsNET and newer clients" which
is, of course, the opposite of true.

VSP works with all Windows versions where NBU installs it. VSS only
works with newer versions. As, I believe I recall having read, do many
others on this mailing list, I much prefer to use the OS vendor's
snapshot utility because it doesn't run (as large) a risk of leaving
random, huge files that can't be deleted lying about wasting space.

I believe that I'm still correct when I say that VSP is the default
library used, however, even on OS versions that NetBackup knows support
VSS. I hope that'll change, since having to manually flip over to VSS
for every new client is an extra step (that other admins in our
organizations may forget, causing later irritation), but that's how
things are now.


--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556



________________________________

From: Randy Samora [mailto:***@stewart.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:11 PM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



Thank you, thank you, thank you, that is a lot of very useful insight
and I'm glad I finally asked.



One more question for clarification. In reference to "I guess I'm not
sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the client". If that
statement isn't obvious, then I'm already beginning to panic thinking
I've done something wrong. I've been buried up to my eyeballs in
NetBackup for so long that my basic Windows skills are just about
obsolete. But what I was referring to is for each client on which I
want to use VSS, I go into Windows Explorer, right click on a volume (Y:
drive for example) and I Enable VSS and then configure the schedule for
the shadow copy. In my case, I delete the two default schedules and I
create a "Once" schedule for five years down the road. By that time the
hardware will have been replaced so I don't have to worry about VSS
copies eating up disk space unnecessarily. The only copies being made
are during the backups; or so I assume. Is this not correct? I thought
that by default, VSS was not enabled on a Win2k3 server and had to be
manually enabled and then configured for size, schedule and location of
the file. I tried to ask a Symantec Engineer once during an open ticket
for something else but he told me to ask Microsoft.



Is there a better way?



Thanks

randy



-----Original Message-----
From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:48 PM
To: Randy Samora; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



The following is my understanding, but I don't promise I'm Right about

it. :^>



At Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:08 AM, Randy Samora
Post by Randy Samora
1. If I want to start using VSS on my old clients, I know I need
to enable VSS on the client itself but what happens at the Master?
Do I check the Open File Backups for that client and select VSS
instead of VSP?
I don't believe that there is anything specific one needs to do on the

client itself. You need to explicitly select VSS instead of VSP, bearing

in mind that VSP only works with WindowsNET and newer clients (ie,

versions of Windows that provide the Volume Shadow Copy Service). In

particular, Win2k does not while Win2k3 does.



I'm not sure what happens if you tell a client that can't do VSS to do

so... I don't believe that it will fall back to VSP, I believe that it

will either fail with a 156 or (if so configured in the client DB)

disable snapshots (and open file backups) and proceed.
Post by Randy Samora
2. What is the default behavior? If I deleted all of the clients
from the Client Attributes tab of the Master Server properties,
what would occur on those clients in regards to open file backups?
The default for all Windows clients is WOFB enabled, use VSP, fail (with

a 156) if the snapshot fails.



(So, imho, you should have been modifying the client DB all along to

flip the "if snapshot fails" bit.)
Post by Randy Samora
3. If I bring a new client on line with the default install,
does it do open file backups by default?
Yes, but it will use VSP, which will fail if the client host hasn't been

rebooted after the client software was installed to enable the VSP

module.
Post by Randy Samora
It appears that for each client I want to use open file backups, I
have to add the client to the Master Server properties and then
configure the open file options. That.s easy to do but I.ve always
had doubts because it doesn.t seem logical.
It doesn't seem logical because the GUI design is boneheaded.



What you are really doing with that pointy-clicky bit is creating (or

modifying, if it already existed) a file whose name matches the client

under /usr/openv/netbackup/db/client (yes, even under 6.5 where

"everything but images" is supposedly in DB form). You do the same thing

on the command line with the bpclient command. (Well, that's what you're

doing on Unix masters. I don't really know (or care, honestly) where

Windows masters servers store the same data.)



It's in the Master section of the GUI's host properties because it

modifies settings on the master, which is obviously backward engineered

thinking, but now that everybody's used to finding it there, it probably

won't change. The Clients section of that same tree strictly modifies

settings that are stored on the client host, but these directives are

something that bpbrm needs to know when it goes and tells the client to

start generating backup streams, so it's not configuration that

logically belongs on the client.
Post by Randy Samora
Today, when I add a new client, I enable VSS on all volumes of the
client, add the client to the Master Server properties, Enable Open
File Backups is checked and I configure the options.
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the

client". I don't think I do anything that resembles that. Are you

talking about the option to perform snapshot backups in the Policy

configuration? Although that can use VSS or VSP, it's not the same thing

as WOFB. If not that, where's the configuration you're describing?



I trust someone will correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above.

(Except the whole Master host properties thing. That really is just

stupid. ;^>)



--

gabriel rosenkoetter

Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery

***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556
Ed Wilts
2008-04-09 01:56:02 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Rosenkoetter, Gabriel <
Post by Rosenkoetter, Gabriel
I believe that I'm still correct when I say that VSP is the default
library used, however, even on OS versions that NetBackup knows support
VSS. I hope that'll change, since having to manually flip over to VSS
for every new client is an extra step (that other admins in our
organizations may forget, causing later irritation), but that's how
things are now.
You won't believe how many times I've reminded the engineering teams to get
this right and just get rid of that #$%^ VSP! It's just pure evil and with
6.5, there was absolutely no excuse to still make it the default snapshot
provider for a fresh client install.

The default is still to *install* VSP, even on Windows 2003 clients. Do a
custom install, uncheck VSP, and it all just magically works. This has the
added bonus of not requiring reboots whenever you later update the client.
--
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:***@ewilts.org
Rosenkoetter, Gabriel
2008-04-09 14:02:21 UTC
Permalink
The last time I checked, that'd be the bpfis log on the client side.

Maybe the bpbrm log on the media server.

(It's been a while, though, and various other logging pieces definitely
changed with 6.x, so you may need to dig into the Unified Logging horror
show.)


--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556



_____

From: Randy Samora [mailto:***@stewart.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:56 PM
To: Randy Samora; Rosenkoetter, Gabriel;
veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



I meant VSS, not VSP.



From: Randy Samora
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:53 PM
To: Randy Samora; Rosenkoetter, Gabriel;
veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



I want to verify that I don't have to anything at the Windows OS level
to allow NetBackup to use VSS on that client so I'm going to change the
settings on one client and leave them as is on another. What's the
easiest way to verify that they are both still using VSP?



Thanks,

Randy



From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Randy
Samora
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:22 PM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



We're hiring, are you interested J Just kidding but thank you for the
response. Over 700 Windows clients. I'm not about to admit how many of
them I have done this to.



Thanks again,

Randy



From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:19 PM
To: Randy Samora; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



Wow.



No, I've never once done that.



It was my understanding, working strictly from Symantec/Veritas
documentation, that NetBackup went and created its own snapshots as
configured in the client DB section on the master for WOFB purposes and
didn't need any client-side preparation.



It sounds like what you're doing is configuring (well, "unconfiguring"),
on each of your servers, a scheduled snapshot which can be accessed from
that server should a file be removed or modified. That's all well and
good, and that is a nice feature (present in most modern volume
managers; MS is a bit behind the times on including it), but it's got
nothing to do with NetBackup. NetBackup doesn't care about whatever VSS
snapshots you've already got scheduled for yourself on the host, it
creates its own in order to perform WOFBackups by speaking through an
API to the same Service that you're getting to with Windows Explorer.



There's nothing wrong with what you're doing, but it's not necessary
(unless I'm grossly mistaken) to make NetBackup's WOFB functionality Go.
NBU will go turn the service on when it needs it for the backup and then
back off again when it's done. I'm pretty sure you can just strike that
step of your process off the list entirely.

--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556





_____

From: Randy Samora [mailto:***@stewart.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:11 PM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups

Thank you, thank you, thank you, that is a lot of very useful insight
and I'm glad I finally asked.



One more question for clarification. In reference to "I guess I'm not
sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the client". If that
statement isn't obvious, then I'm already beginning to panic thinking
I've done something wrong. I've been buried up to my eyeballs in
NetBackup for so long that my basic Windows skills are just about
obsolete. But what I was referring to is for each client on which I
want to use VSS, I go into Windows Explorer, right click on a volume (Y:
drive for example) and I Enable VSS and then configure the schedule for
the shadow copy. In my case, I delete the two default schedules and I
create a "Once" schedule for five years down the road. By that time the
hardware will have been replaced so I don't have to worry about VSS
copies eating up disk space unnecessarily. The only copies being made
are during the backups; or so I assume. Is this not correct? I thought
that by default, VSS was not enabled on a Win2k3 server and had to be
manually enabled and then configured for size, schedule and location of
the file. I tried to ask a Symantec Engineer once during an open ticket
for something else but he told me to ask Microsoft.



Is there a better way?



Thanks

randy



-----Original Message-----
From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:48 PM
To: Randy Samora; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



The following is my understanding, but I don't promise I'm Right about

it. :^>



At Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:08 AM, Randy Samora
Post by Randy Samora
1. If I want to start using VSS on my old clients, I know I need
to enable VSS on the client itself but what happens at the Master?
Do I check the Open File Backups for that client and select VSS
instead of VSP?
I don't believe that there is anything specific one needs to do on the

client itself. You need to explicitly select VSS instead of VSP, bearing

in mind that VSP only works with WindowsNET and newer clients (ie,

versions of Windows that provide the Volume Shadow Copy Service). In

particular, Win2k does not while Win2k3 does.



I'm not sure what happens if you tell a client that can't do VSS to do

so... I don't believe that it will fall back to VSP, I believe that it

will either fail with a 156 or (if so configured in the client DB)

disable snapshots (and open file backups) and proceed.
Post by Randy Samora
2. What is the default behavior? If I deleted all of the clients
from the Client Attributes tab of the Master Server properties,
what would occur on those clients in regards to open file backups?
The default for all Windows clients is WOFB enabled, use VSP, fail (with

a 156) if the snapshot fails.



(So, imho, you should have been modifying the client DB all along to

flip the "if snapshot fails" bit.)
Post by Randy Samora
3. If I bring a new client on line with the default install,
does it do open file backups by default?
Yes, but it will use VSP, which will fail if the client host hasn't been

rebooted after the client software was installed to enable the VSP

module.
Post by Randy Samora
It appears that for each client I want to use open file backups, I
have to add the client to the Master Server properties and then
configure the open file options. That.s easy to do but I.ve always
had doubts because it doesn.t seem logical.
It doesn't seem logical because the GUI design is boneheaded.



What you are really doing with that pointy-clicky bit is creating (or

modifying, if it already existed) a file whose name matches the client

under /usr/openv/netbackup/db/client (yes, even under 6.5 where

"everything but images" is supposedly in DB form). You do the same thing

on the command line with the bpclient command. (Well, that's what you're

doing on Unix masters. I don't really know (or care, honestly) where

Windows masters servers store the same data.)



It's in the Master section of the GUI's host properties because it

modifies settings on the master, which is obviously backward engineered

thinking, but now that everybody's used to finding it there, it probably

won't change. The Clients section of that same tree strictly modifies

settings that are stored on the client host, but these directives are

something that bpbrm needs to know when it goes and tells the client to

start generating backup streams, so it's not configuration that

logically belongs on the client.
Post by Randy Samora
Today, when I add a new client, I enable VSS on all volumes of the
client, add the client to the Master Server properties, Enable Open
File Backups is checked and I configure the options.
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "enable VSS on all volumes of the

client". I don't think I do anything that resembles that. Are you

talking about the option to perform snapshot backups in the Policy

configuration? Although that can use VSS or VSP, it's not the same thing

as WOFB. If not that, where's the configuration you're describing?



I trust someone will correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above.

(Except the whole Master host properties thing. That really is just

stupid. ;^>)



--

gabriel rosenkoetter

Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery

***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556
Rosenkoetter, Gabriel
2008-04-09 14:09:33 UTC
Permalink
Ed, you seem to be asserting that a client with vsp.sys present will use
it, despite configuration to the contrary done in the client DB on the
master.

I think that's incorrect.

Is that actually what you meant to say?


--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556



_____

From: Ed Wilts [mailto:***@ewilts.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:59 PM
To: Randy Samora
Cc: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups


On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Randy Samora <***@stewart.com>
wrote:


I want to verify that I don't have to anything at the Windows OS
level to allow NetBackup to use VSS on that client so I'm going to
change the settings on one client and leave them as is on another.
What's the easiest way to verify that they are both still using VSP?

If VSP.SYS exists in system32\drivers (I think - double-check that
location), then VSP gets used. Uninstall the client, reboot, and
re-install the client without VSP using a custom install.

Be aware that in some rare cases, the system may not come up after VSP
is uninstalled. Some people have seen this multiple times (lucky me)
and some people have never seen it.

.../Ed
--
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:***@ewilts.org
Randy Samora
2008-04-09 14:16:24 UTC
Permalink
I apologize for saying "VSP", let's pretend I didn't. What's the
quickest/easiest way to determine if a backup used VSS or not on a
Windows server?



From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:10 AM
To: Ed Wilts; Randy Samora
Cc: veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



Ed, you seem to be asserting that a client with vsp.sys present will use
it, despite configuration to the contrary done in the client DB on the
master.



I think that's incorrect.



Is that actually what you meant to say?



--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556





________________________________

From: Ed Wilts [mailto:***@ewilts.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:59 PM
To: Randy Samora
Cc: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Randy Samora <***@stewart.com>
wrote:

I want to verify that I don't have to anything at the Windows OS level
to allow NetBackup to use VSS on that client so I'm going to change the
settings on one client and leave them as is on another. What's the
easiest way to verify that they are both still using VSP?

If VSP.SYS exists in system32\drivers (I think - double-check that
location), then VSP gets used. Uninstall the client, reboot, and
re-install the client without VSP using a custom install.



Be aware that in some rare cases, the system may not come up after VSP
is uninstalled. Some people have seen this multiple times (lucky me)
and some people have never seen it.



.../Ed
--
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:***@ewilts.org
WEAVER, Simon (external)
2008-04-09 14:38:06 UTC
Permalink
Randy

Im 95% sure you will find that for typical installs for Windows, it will
use VSP :-)

NBU host Properties / Master / Servername / Clients / add the client
name and check open backup file tabs. will probably see its using VSP by
default.

Simon

________________________________

From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Randy
Samora
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:16 PM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; Ed Wilts
Cc: veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



I apologize for saying "VSP", let's pretend I didn't. What's the
quickest/easiest way to determine if a backup used VSS or not on a
Windows server?



From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:10 AM
To: Ed Wilts; Randy Samora
Cc: veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



Ed, you seem to be asserting that a client with vsp.sys present will use
it, despite configuration to the contrary done in the client DB on the
master.



I think that's incorrect.



Is that actually what you meant to say?



--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556





________________________________

From: Ed Wilts [mailto:***@ewilts.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:59 PM
To: Randy Samora
Cc: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Randy Samora <***@stewart.com>
wrote:

I want to verify that I don't have to anything at the Windows OS level
to allow NetBackup to use VSS on that client so I'm going to change the
settings on one client and leave them as is on another. What's the
easiest way to verify that they are both still using VSP?

If VSP.SYS exists in system32\drivers (I think - double-check that
location), then VSP gets used. Uninstall the client, reboot, and
re-install the client without VSP using a custom install.



Be aware that in some rare cases, the system may not come up after VSP
is uninstalled. Some people have seen this multiple times (lucky me)
and some people have never seen it.



.../Ed
--
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:***@ewilts.org



This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential and/or
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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WEAVER, Simon (external)
2008-04-09 14:48:51 UTC
Permalink
Randy,
you could try this command too perhaps....

bpclient -client <Servername> -L

Look for WOFB FIM - It may say VSP as an example... Also must use
capital "L"

Simon

________________________________

From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Randy
Samora
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:16 PM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; Ed Wilts
Cc: veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



I apologize for saying "VSP", let's pretend I didn't. What's the
quickest/easiest way to determine if a backup used VSS or not on a
Windows server?



From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:10 AM
To: Ed Wilts; Randy Samora
Cc: veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



Ed, you seem to be asserting that a client with vsp.sys present will use
it, despite configuration to the contrary done in the client DB on the
master.



I think that's incorrect.



Is that actually what you meant to say?



--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556





________________________________

From: Ed Wilts [mailto:***@ewilts.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:59 PM
To: Randy Samora
Cc: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Randy Samora <***@stewart.com>
wrote:

I want to verify that I don't have to anything at the Windows OS level
to allow NetBackup to use VSS on that client so I'm going to change the
settings on one client and leave them as is on another. What's the
easiest way to verify that they are both still using VSP?

If VSP.SYS exists in system32\drivers (I think - double-check that
location), then VSP gets used. Uninstall the client, reboot, and
re-install the client without VSP using a custom install.



Be aware that in some rare cases, the system may not come up after VSP
is uninstalled. Some people have seen this multiple times (lucky me)
and some people have never seen it.



.../Ed
--
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:***@ewilts.org



This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential and/or
privileged information or information otherwise protected from disclosure.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately, do not copy this message or any attachments and do not use it
for any purpose or disclose its content to any person, but delete this
message and any attachments from your system. Astrium disclaims any and all
liability if this email transmission was virus corrupted, altered or
falsified.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Astrium Limited, Registered in England and Wales No. 2449259
REGISTERED OFFICE:-
Gunnels Wood Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, SG1 2AS, England
Len Boyle
2008-04-09 14:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Look at the windows app event logs

From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Randy Samora
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:16 AM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; Ed Wilts
Cc: veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups

I apologize for saying "VSP", let's pretend I didn't. What's the quickest/easiest way to determine if a backup used VSS or not on a Windows server?

From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:10 AM
To: Ed Wilts; Randy Samora
Cc: veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups

Ed, you seem to be asserting that a client with vsp.sys present will use it, despite configuration to the contrary done in the client DB on the master.

I think that's incorrect.

Is that actually what you meant to say?


--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556


________________________________
From: Ed Wilts [mailto:***@ewilts.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:59 PM
To: Randy Samora
Cc: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Randy Samora <***@stewart.com<mailto:***@stewart.com>> wrote:

I want to verify that I don't have to anything at the Windows OS level to allow NetBackup to use VSS on that client so I'm going to change the settings on one client and leave them as is on another. What's the easiest way to verify that they are both still using VSP?
If VSP.SYS exists in system32\drivers (I think - double-check that location), then VSP gets used. Uninstall the client, reboot, and re-install the client without VSP using a custom install.

Be aware that in some rare cases, the system may not come up after VSP is uninstalled. Some people have seen this multiple times (lucky me) and some people have never seen it.

.../Ed
--
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:***@ewilts.org<mailto:***@ewilts.org>
WEAVER, Simon (external)
2008-04-09 15:07:13 UTC
Permalink
Event ID's 7035, 7036 should be a clue too.

________________________________

From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Len
Boyle
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:56 PM
To: Randy Samora; Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; Ed Wilts
Cc: veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



Look at the windows app event logs



From: veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Randy
Samora
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:16 AM
To: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; Ed Wilts
Cc: veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



I apologize for saying "VSP", let's pretend I didn't. What's the
quickest/easiest way to determine if a backup used VSS or not on a
Windows server?



From: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel [mailto:***@radian.biz]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:10 AM
To: Ed Wilts; Randy Samora
Cc: veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups



Ed, you seem to be asserting that a client with vsp.sys present will use
it, despite configuration to the contrary done in the client DB on the
master.



I think that's incorrect.



Is that actually what you meant to say?



--
gabriel rosenkoetter
Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup & Recovery
***@radian.biz, 215 231 1556





________________________________

From: Ed Wilts [mailto:***@ewilts.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:59 PM
To: Randy Samora
Cc: Rosenkoetter, Gabriel; veritas-***@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Clarification About Open File Backups

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Randy Samora <***@stewart.com>
wrote:

I want to verify that I don't have to anything at the Windows OS level
to allow NetBackup to use VSS on that client so I'm going to change the
settings on one client and leave them as is on another. What's the
easiest way to verify that they are both still using VSP?

If VSP.SYS exists in system32\drivers (I think - double-check that
location), then VSP gets used. Uninstall the client, reboot, and
re-install the client without VSP using a custom install.



Be aware that in some rare cases, the system may not come up after VSP
is uninstalled. Some people have seen this multiple times (lucky me)
and some people have never seen it.



.../Ed
--
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:***@ewilts.org



This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential and/or
privileged information or information otherwise protected from disclosure.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately, do not copy this message or any attachments and do not use it
for any purpose or disclose its content to any person, but delete this
message and any attachments from your system. Astrium disclaims any and all
liability if this email transmission was virus corrupted, altered or
falsified.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Astrium Limited, Registered in England and Wales No. 2449259
REGISTERED OFFICE:-
Gunnels Wood Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, SG1 2AS, England
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